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<p>Ciao,</p>
<p>provo a inviare in lista uno scambio di email con Chiara
Cenderelli che non è mai passato, forse per problemi di
formattazione html (?).</p>
<p>Ale<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
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-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table class="moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing="0"
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<th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">Subject:
</th>
<td>Re: I: [Oa-italia] Open Access e H2020 compliance per la
comunità marina</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">Date: </th>
<td>Fri, 6 Jul 2018 11:40:11 +0200</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">From: </th>
<td>Alessandro Sarretta
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alessandro.sarretta@bo.ismar.cnr.it"><alessandro.sarretta@bo.ismar.cnr.it></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">To: </th>
<td>Chiara Cenderelli <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chiara.cenderelli@polimi.it"><chiara.cenderelli@polimi.it></a></td>
</tr>
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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p>Grazie della risposta, Chiara,<br>
</p>
<p>Non so perché non sia arrivata a tutti; forse l'inclusione del
testo html con sottolineature e evidenziazioni viene bloccato
dalla mailing list? Vuoi che provi a girarla io in lista?
Intanto ti rispondo direttamente.<br>
</p>
<p>Altri commenti in linea...<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/07/2018 11:23, Chiara
Cenderelli wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ciao.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ho
inviato (ben due volte aimè) questa risposta ma continuo a
non vederla in lista. Nel dubbio non arrivi a nessuno, te
la invio direttamente.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">J</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">chiara<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Da:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Chiara Cenderelli <br>
<b>Inviato:</b> venerdì 6 luglio 2018 11:19<br>
<b>A:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:oa-italia@openarchives.it"
moz-do-not-send="true">oa-italia@openarchives.it</a><br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> R: [Oa-italia] Open Access e H2020
compliance per la comunità marina<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ciao Alessandro.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ti allego la risposta che un nostro
ricercatore (Polimi) ha ricevuto dall’officer in merito alla
questione che tu poni<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Ecco la
risposta dell’officer:</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Mi sembra una
buona strada percorribile.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<br>
<span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB">There is a
possibility to provide green open access to the paper
despite the long embargo periods imposed by Elsevier. Please
take a look at this page on the Elsevier website:<o:p></o:p></span><br>
<br>
<span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB"><a
href="https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-business/policies/sharing"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-business/policies/sharing</a>.
The relevant part is this:<o:p></o:p></span><br>
<br>
<span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span><br>
<br>
<b><span style="font-size: 18pt; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"
lang="EN-GB"><a
href="https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-business/policies/sharing/accepted-manuscript"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#007398">Accepted
Manuscript</span></a></span></b><span
style="font-size: 18pt; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span><br>
<br>
<span style="color: rgb(80, 80, 80);" lang="EN-GB">Authors can
share their <span
style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">accepted
manuscript</span>:<o:p></o:p></span><br>
<br>
<b><span style="color: rgb(80, 80, 80); background: yellow
none repeat scroll 0% 0%;" lang="EN-GB">Immediately</span></b><span
style="color: rgb(80, 80, 80);" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span><br>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> via
their non-commercial personal homepage or blog<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> by
<span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">updating
a preprint in arXiv</span> or RePEc <span
style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">with the
accepted manuscript</span><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> via
their research institute or institutional repository for
internal institutional uses or as part of an
invitation-only research collaboration work-group<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
directly by providing copies to their students or to
research collaborators for their personal use<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> for
private scholarly sharing as part of an invitation-only
work group on commercial sites with which Elsevier has an
agreement<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<br>
<b><span style="color: rgb(80, 80, 80);" lang="EN-GB">After
the embargo period</span></b><span style="color: rgb(80,
80, 80);" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span><br>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo2;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> via
non-commercial hosting platforms such as their
institutional repository<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo2;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> via
commercial sites with which Elsevier has an agreement<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<br>
<b><span style="color: rgb(80, 80, 80); background: yellow
none repeat scroll 0% 0%;" lang="EN-GB">In all cases
accepted manuscripts should:</span></b><span style="color:
rgb(80, 80, 80);" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span><br>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo3;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> <span
style="background: yellow none repeat scroll 0% 0%;"
lang="EN-GB">link to the formal publication via its DOI<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo3;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> <span
style="background: yellow none repeat scroll 0% 0%;"
lang="EN-GB">bear a CC-BY-NC-ND license</span> – this is
easy to do, <a
href="https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-business/policies/sharing/how-to-attach-a-user-license"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#007398">click
here</span></a> to find out how<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo3;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> if
aggregated with other manuscripts, for example in a
repository or other site, be shared in alignment with our <a
href="https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-business/policies/hosting"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#007398">hosting
policy</span></a><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo3;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> <span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB">not be added to or enhanced in any way to
appear more like, or to substitute for, the published
journal article<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB">So,
if you first posts the <u>preprint</u> version of the
paper on arXiv (if it is not already there), then he can
replace it with the accepted final manuscript once the
article is published and thereby fulfil the ERC's open
access requirements - with no embargo period at all.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
La soluzione l'avevo sempre vista, però arXiv è un repository di
dominio che non vede tra gli argomenti quello marino,
oceanografico, ambientale. Tutto si può fare, però mi è sempre
sembrato un po' tirato e forse le policy di arXiv non
permetterebbero l'upload di paper fuori tema...<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB6PR0602MB27582F10E766802BF87D1DF6FE470@DB6PR0602MB2758.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nel testo dei contratti Elsevier
analizzati, come repository in cui si può aggiornare la
versione pre print con l’AAM, sono citati solo arXiv e
Repec. Forse perché sono tra i primi nati (lo so, questa
spiegazione non regge)? O forse perché in questo modo
l’editore può circoscrivere il fenomeno e quindi meglio
controllarlo (io opterei per questa)? <span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sinceramente, non l’abbiamo ancora ben
capito.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Per sapere se l’escamotage è estendibile
anche ad altri subject and no profit repository forse
andrebbe fatta una richiesta diretta all’editore (e non
sarebbe male pretendere che il nome di tale archivio sia
citato nell’agreement).</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Chiedevo in lista tempo fa le stesse cose esprimendo gli stessi
dubbi.<br>
Mi pare che MarXiv abbia avuto una risposta previsa da Elsevier
(anche se non scritta a occhio, o almeno non ripostata nelle linee
guida sullo sharing)<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB6PR0602MB27582F10E766802BF87D1DF6FE470@DB6PR0602MB2758.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Un’altra modalità possibile, che noi
indichiamo ai nostri autori sotto mandato OA, nel caso di
editore che richiede un embargo superiore ai 6 mesi (quindi
non solo Elsevier, ma Springer, Wiley e molti altri), oppure
nel caso in cui non sia proprio accettata la via green
(nell’ambito della chimica ce ne sono diversi), e non sia
possibile fare Gold e pagare le APC, o non si voglia, è
contrattare l’abbassamento dei tempi di embargo e
l’adeguamento a quelli imposti dal funder (Elsevier si
allinea ai criteri di diversi programmi di finanziamento
statunitensi, non vedo perché non dovrebbe farlo con quello
europeo). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suggeriamo di inviare l’Addendum fornito
dalla CE. L’editore ha sempre riposto NO (ovviamente), ma la
speranza è quella di creare una massa critica e non dobbiamo
demordere!</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Questo l'ho proposto a vari miei colleghi, ma nessuno fin'ora ha
ancora accettato nemmeno di provarci...<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB6PR0602MB27582F10E766802BF87D1DF6FE470@DB6PR0602MB2758.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A questi punti, lo scambio può essere
girato al project officer mettendolo al corrente
dell’impossibilità di rispettare i periodi di embargo
nonostante i tentativi fatti presso l'editore.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Capisco questa ultima opzione, ma secondo me l'officer dovrebbe
dire "cavoli vostri", cambiate journal o trovate i soldi :-)<br>
<br>
Ale<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font size="2" face="courier,verdana,arial,sans-serif"
color="grey">
<p>Alessandro Sarretta</p>
<p>CNR - Consiglio Nazionale Ricerche <br>
ISMAR - Istituto di Scienze Marine<br>
Arsenale - Tesa 104, Castello 2737/F, 30122 Venezia, Italy<br>
e-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:alessandro.sarretta@ismar.cnr.it"
moz-do-not-send="true">alessandro.sarretta@ismar.cnr.it</a><br>
Tel: +39 041 2407929</p>
<p>Research information:<br>
</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://orcid.org/0000-0002-1475-8686"
moz-do-not-send="true">ORCID</a></li>
<li><a
href="http://scholar.google.it/citations?user=IsyXargAAAAJ&hl=it"
moz-do-not-send="true">Google scholar profile</a></li>
<li><a href="https://impactstory.org/AlessandroSarretta"
moz-do-not-send="true">Impactstory</a></li>
<!-- <li><a href="https://impactstory.org/AlessandroSarretta"><img src="https://impactstory.org/logo/small" width="80" /></a></li> -->
</ul>
skype/twitter: alesarrett<br>
Web: <a href="http://ilsarrett.wordpress.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">ilsarrett.wordpress.com</a> </font>
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