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    <p>Ciao,</p>
    <p>provo a inviare in lista uno scambio di email con Chiara
      Cenderelli che non è mai passato, forse per problemi di
      formattazione html (?).</p>
    <p>Ale<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
      <br>
      -------- Forwarded Message --------
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        cellpadding="0" border="0">
        <tbody>
          <tr>
            <th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">Subject:
            </th>
            <td>Re: I: [Oa-italia] Open Access e H2020 compliance per la
              comunità marina</td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">Date: </th>
            <td>Fri, 6 Jul 2018 11:40:11 +0200</td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">From: </th>
            <td>Alessandro Sarretta
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alessandro.sarretta@bo.ismar.cnr.it"><alessandro.sarretta@bo.ismar.cnr.it></a></td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">To: </th>
            <td>Chiara Cenderelli <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chiara.cenderelli@polimi.it"><chiara.cenderelli@polimi.it></a></td>
          </tr>
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      <br>
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      <p>Grazie della risposta, Chiara,<br>
      </p>
      <p>Non so perché non sia arrivata a tutti; forse l'inclusione del
        testo html con sottolineature e evidenziazioni viene bloccato
        dalla mailing list? Vuoi che provi a girarla io in lista?
        Intanto ti rispondo direttamente.<br>
      </p>
      <p>Altri commenti in linea...<br>
      </p>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/07/2018 11:23, Chiara
        Cenderelli wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB6PR0602MB27582F10E766802BF87D1DF6FE470@DB6PR0602MB2758.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com">
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          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ciao.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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              inviato (ben due volte aimè) questa risposta ma continuo a
              non vederla in lista. Nel dubbio non arrivi a nessuno, te
              la invio direttamente.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">chiara<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                    style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Da:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
                  Chiara Cenderelli <br>
                  <b>Inviato:</b> venerdì 6 luglio 2018 11:19<br>
                  <b>A:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                    href="mailto:oa-italia@openarchives.it"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">oa-italia@openarchives.it</a><br>
                  <b>Oggetto:</b> R: [Oa-italia] Open Access e H2020
                  compliance per la comunità marina<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Ciao Alessandro.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Ti allego la risposta che un nostro
            ricercatore (Polimi) ha ricevuto dall’officer in merito alla
            questione che tu poni<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Ecco la
              risposta dell’officer:</span><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Mi sembra una
              buona strada percorribile.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <br>
          <span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB">There is a
            possibility to provide green open access to the paper
            despite the long embargo periods imposed by Elsevier. Please
            take a look at this page on the Elsevier website:<o:p></o:p></span><br>
          <br>
          <span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB"><a
              href="https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-business/policies/sharing"
              moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-business/policies/sharing</a>.
            The relevant part is this:<o:p></o:p></span><br>
          <br>
          <span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span><br>
          <br>
          <b><span style="font-size: 18pt; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"
              lang="EN-GB"><a
href="https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-business/policies/sharing/accepted-manuscript"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#007398">Accepted
                  Manuscript</span></a></span></b><span
            style="font-size: 18pt; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"
            lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span><br>
          <br>
          <span style="color: rgb(80, 80, 80);" lang="EN-GB">Authors can
            share their <span
              style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">accepted
              manuscript</span>:<o:p></o:p></span><br>
          <br>
          <b><span style="color: rgb(80, 80, 80); background: yellow
              none repeat scroll 0% 0%;" lang="EN-GB">Immediately</span></b><span
            style="color: rgb(80, 80, 80);" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span><br>
          <ul type="disc">
            <li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
              level1 lfo1;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> via
              their non-commercial personal homepage or blog<o:p></o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
              level1 lfo1;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> by
              <span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">updating
                a preprint in arXiv</span> or RePEc <span
                style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">with the
                accepted manuscript</span><o:p></o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
              level1 lfo1;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> via
              their research institute or institutional repository for
              internal institutional uses or as part of an
              invitation-only research collaboration work-group<o:p></o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
              level1 lfo1;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
              directly by providing copies to their students or to
              research collaborators for their personal use<o:p></o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
              level1 lfo1;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> for
              private scholarly sharing as part of an invitation-only
              work group on commercial sites with which Elsevier has an
              agreement<o:p></o:p></li>
          </ul>
          <br>
          <b><span style="color: rgb(80, 80, 80);" lang="EN-GB">After
              the embargo period</span></b><span style="color: rgb(80,
            80, 80);" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span><br>
          <ul type="disc">
            <li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
              level1 lfo2;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> via
              non-commercial hosting platforms such as their
              institutional repository<o:p></o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
              level1 lfo2;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> via
              commercial sites with which Elsevier has an agreement<o:p></o:p></li>
          </ul>
          <br>
          <b><span style="color: rgb(80, 80, 80); background: yellow
              none repeat scroll 0% 0%;" lang="EN-GB">In all cases
              accepted manuscripts should:</span></b><span style="color:
            rgb(80, 80, 80);" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span><br>
          <ul type="disc">
            <li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo3;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> <span
                style="background: yellow none repeat scroll 0% 0%;"
                lang="EN-GB">link to the formal publication via its DOI<o:p></o:p></span></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo3;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> <span
                style="background: yellow none repeat scroll 0% 0%;"
                lang="EN-GB">bear a CC-BY-NC-ND license</span> – this is
              easy to do, <a
href="https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-business/policies/sharing/how-to-attach-a-user-license"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#007398">click
                  here</span></a> to find out how<o:p></o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo3;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> if
              aggregated with other manuscripts, for example in a
              repository or other site, be shared in alignment with our <a
href="https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-business/policies/hosting"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#007398">hosting
                  policy</span></a><o:p></o:p></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#505050;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
              level1 lfo3;background:white;vertical-align:baseline"> <span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
                lang="EN-GB">not be added to or enhanced in any way to
                appear more like, or to substitute for, the published
                journal article<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          </ul>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB">So,
              if you  first posts the <u>preprint</u> version of the
              paper on arXiv (if it is not already there), then he can
              replace it with the accepted final manuscript once the
              article is published and thereby fulfil the ERC's open
              access requirements - with no embargo period at all.</span></p>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      La soluzione l'avevo sempre vista, però arXiv è un repository di
      dominio che non vede tra gli argomenti quello marino,
      oceanografico, ambientale. Tutto si può fare, però mi è sempre
      sembrato un po' tirato e forse le policy di arXiv non
      permetterebbero l'upload di paper fuori tema...<br>
      <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB6PR0602MB27582F10E766802BF87D1DF6FE470@DB6PR0602MB2758.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com">
        <div class="WordSection1">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Nel testo dei contratti Elsevier
            analizzati, come repository in cui si può aggiornare la
            versione pre print con l’AAM, sono citati solo arXiv e
            Repec. Forse perché sono tra i primi nati (lo so, questa
            spiegazione non regge)? O forse perché in questo modo
            l’editore può circoscrivere il fenomeno e quindi meglio
            controllarlo (io opterei per questa)? <span
              style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Sinceramente, non l’abbiamo ancora ben
            capito.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Per sapere se l’escamotage è estendibile
            anche ad altri subject and no profit repository forse
            andrebbe fatta una richiesta diretta all’editore (e non
            sarebbe male pretendere che il nome di tale archivio sia
            citato nell’agreement).</p>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      Chiedevo in lista tempo fa le stesse cose esprimendo gli stessi
      dubbi.<br>
      Mi pare che MarXiv abbia avuto una risposta previsa da Elsevier
      (anche se non scritta a occhio, o almeno non ripostata nelle linee
      guida sullo sharing)<br>
      <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB6PR0602MB27582F10E766802BF87D1DF6FE470@DB6PR0602MB2758.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com">
        <div class="WordSection1">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Un’altra modalità possibile, che noi
            indichiamo ai nostri autori sotto mandato OA, nel caso di
            editore che richiede un embargo superiore ai 6 mesi (quindi
            non solo Elsevier, ma Springer, Wiley e molti altri), oppure
            nel caso in cui non sia proprio accettata la via green
            (nell’ambito della chimica ce ne sono diversi), e non sia
            possibile fare Gold e pagare le APC, o non si voglia, è
            contrattare l’abbassamento dei tempi di embargo e
            l’adeguamento a quelli imposti dal funder (Elsevier si
            allinea ai criteri di diversi programmi di finanziamento
            statunitensi, non vedo perché non dovrebbe farlo con quello
            europeo). <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Suggeriamo di inviare l’Addendum fornito
            dalla CE. L’editore ha sempre riposto NO (ovviamente), ma la
            speranza è quella di creare una massa critica e non dobbiamo
            demordere!</p>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      Questo l'ho proposto a vari miei colleghi, ma nessuno fin'ora ha
      ancora accettato nemmeno di provarci...<br>
      <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB6PR0602MB27582F10E766802BF87D1DF6FE470@DB6PR0602MB2758.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com">
        <div class="WordSection1">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">A questi punti, lo scambio può essere
            girato al project officer mettendolo al corrente
            dell’impossibilità di rispettare i periodi di embargo
            nonostante i tentativi fatti presso l'editore.</p>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      Capisco questa ultima opzione, ma secondo me l'officer dovrebbe
      dire "cavoli vostri", cambiate journal o trovate i soldi :-)<br>
      <br>
      Ale<br>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
        <font size="2" face="courier,verdana,arial,sans-serif"
          color="grey">
          <p>Alessandro Sarretta</p>
          <p>CNR - Consiglio Nazionale Ricerche <br>
            ISMAR - Istituto di Scienze Marine<br>
            Arsenale - Tesa 104, Castello 2737/F, 30122 Venezia, Italy<br>
            e-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
              href="mailto:alessandro.sarretta@ismar.cnr.it"
              moz-do-not-send="true">alessandro.sarretta@ismar.cnr.it</a><br>
            Tel: +39 041 2407929</p>
          <p>Research information:<br>
          </p>
          <ul>
            <li><a href="http://orcid.org/0000-0002-1475-8686"
                moz-do-not-send="true">ORCID</a></li>
            <li><a
                href="http://scholar.google.it/citations?user=IsyXargAAAAJ&hl=it"
                moz-do-not-send="true">Google scholar profile</a></li>
            <li><a href="https://impactstory.org/AlessandroSarretta"
                moz-do-not-send="true">Impactstory</a></li>
            <!-- <li><a href="https://impactstory.org/AlessandroSarretta"><img src="https://impactstory.org/logo/small" width="80" /></a></li> -->
          </ul>
          skype/twitter: alesarrett<br>
          Web: <a href="http://ilsarrett.wordpress.com"
            moz-do-not-send="true">ilsarrett.wordpress.com</a> </font>
      </div>
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